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 “Ohh, so you’re Talia?! Matt has told me all about you,” Mudvayne frontman Chüd (formerly known as Spag) exclaims. Apparently someone has been doing some PR work on my behalf. Chüd is almost as excited to see me as if I were Christina Aguilera (“She’s so hot! I love petite blondes,” he confides). Mudvayne’s first album, L.D. 50, defied traditional time signatures and defined the so-called math metal, a phrase coined by Chüd himself. It went on to earn them the MTV2 award in 2001, where the band appeared as gunshot victims dressed in bloodied white tuxedos. How’s that for promotion? Their second release, The End of All Things to Come, marks the beginning of a new phase for the band – more hard-to-pronounce pseudos, less make-up, more melody and more harmony. The unrestrained rage still remains, however. In fact, I can hear the layered guitars roaring during the soundcheck. And while the rest of Mudvayne are in the midst of this rather loud session, Chüd makes some afternoon tea and talks of all things to come. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Why did you guys each change your names – again? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | Because we can! We just did it to make fun of ourselves basically and to let people know... It's like, all of a sudden, you're this math metal-labeled band or whatever. You probably didn't know this, but they talk about other bands now as being math metal. I named that; I was the first person that ever said that. They were interviewing us a couple of years ago, like, “How would you describe your music?” I was like, "Um, we're fuckin' math metal. Bring your abacus!" Now they use that, and I'm like, I coined that fuckin' phrase! It's awesome. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
How did you come up with that phrase? Was it because of your weird time signatures? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | Yeah, but literally, I just said it. The last record was like crazy time-signature shit. This one's more open. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Why is the album called The End of All Things to Come? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | I think a lot of people look at the end as destruction and devastation. People are talking about it like it's apocalyptic or whatever, but even spirit has limitations. And when it has limitations, it is, I think, linear time. Basically, the idea is letting go of time, to let go of linear time and find a vertical moment. Every moment is vertical, like frozen moments in time going vertical rather than moving in a linear fashion – calendar, that idea – so The End of All Things to Come. It's something coming, involved in that lineage of time, so it's kind of like the end of time. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
You apparently locked yourselves up in a studio and a time frame to write. Basically, you yourselves set a deadline. Do you work best under pressure? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: |
I had a ton of literature that I had to read to make sure that I was touching certain points of pushing the idea out. Sometimes it takes awhile to realize these things, let things reveal themselves to you almost. You can't force open the petals of a flower. It has to come to you and open up on its own. So that was the big scare – making sure that things had realized themselves to me. I would have to read a lot of stuff a couple of weeks before I knew I was going to write that song. I would read it and then sit on it, meditate on it, let it go. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
What did you read? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | I can't tell you (laughs)! It's an ancient Chinese secret. It's just spiritual books. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
How was it working with Dave Bottrill, one of the most sought-after producers? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | Oh, awesome, amazing. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Was he strict with you? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | Yeah. Do you get that vibe from him? He's like (pulls a strict schoolmaster face). I did too. It's really weird. It was probably the least I'd ever drank. That two months of working with him was like.... He wouldn't even say anything. “Just got my eye on you. Just letting you know.” It was one of those things. It wouldn't even be a hard look. It would just be a look like, “Look fucker, I’m watching you. Don’t go getting crazy drunk and not being able to sing tomorrow.” I had things in the studio that I was finishing. As we were coming to the zero hour, I had stuff that we were changing. He's like, “You know, I think this song’s got a lot of potential like 'Silence.’ But I don’t like the chorus. Can you try and rewrite this chorus?” Man, that's the hardest thing in the world to do – to come up with a different melody. It would be like humming the melody to your favorite song in the car for two months, and all of a sudden, somebody comes up going, “Hey, why don’t you write a new part over that?” And you got it in your head! You're hearin' it; you're singin' it; you're hummin' it. “Nah, it doesn’t work. Do something else.” Every time you hear that part, it's automatic that you hear that melody. So it was really difficult to rewrite something. But it worked out; it really worked out. It's a lot better now than it was. Garth (Richardson, producer of the band’s first release, LD 50) is a very embracive, a man's man kind of guy, and his production is no real vocal production, very in-your-face, very raw, like the way that he is. David, if you listen to his music, he's that way. He's very precise; he's very focused; he's very articulate, and all of his production – King Crimson, Peter Gabriel, Tool – all those bands are very articulate. And that's how he works. You can tell that he hears sound in three dimensions. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
This album is also more melodic than the first. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | Absolutely. I was very excited about that. The first song we wrote was "(Per) Version of a Truth," and they came back with that (melody) dadada. I was like, awesome! The band's grown up! Somewhere in the last three years of fuckin' relentless touring, we grew up and came together and [there is] a real sense of family in the band now. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Second albums can be turning points – they can break a band that's been "made." Was it hard for you? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: |
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NYROCK: |
Never listen to other people's records when writing your own! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | Totally. I wouldn't listen to a Tool record. I wouldn't listen to Slipknot. I just wouldn't listen to bands that have a certain way of doing things, because then you find yourself all fucked up in that. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
And you worry, "Am I going to sound like them?" | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you do, you worry, "Are people gonna know?" (laughs) I was very careful. I didn't listen to a lot of music and I listened to some electronic stuff. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Really? Like what? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | Matt had me listening to Square Pusher and... what else were we listening to? I really dig old Ministry too... Diamanda Galas. Is that right? That's the chick singer that's fuckin' whack! Yeah, we listened to a lot of that shit too. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
What happened to your self-released album, Kill I Oughta? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | We released it. It's out. It's called The End of All Things to Come now. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
That's the one? You only changed the title? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | Yeah, the Red Record, that's Kill I Oughta. We just had to change the name because of 9/11. Kill I Oughta with a picture of Matt holding a handgun on the cover didn't fly very well. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Was Shawn Crahan (Slipknot's Clown) involved in any way on this album too? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | He was just an executive producer on the last one. He never came into the studio at all. Never did. Executive producers – they never do anything. They just put their stamp of approval on it and they get money. (Laughs) I want to be one! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Yeah, that's an easy job! You toured with Ozzy. Do you watch "The Osbournes"? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | Yeah, totally! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Imagine having your own reality show with you guys and Matt and Shawn! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | No, no (shaking his head with a terrified expression on his face). | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
It could be directed by someone famous. Have you ever approached a famous director to make one of your videos? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | No, otherwise it would be Lynch all the way. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Who's your favorite, Stanley Kubrick or David Lynch? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | Hmm, they're just apples and oranges. Different flavors taste good. David's fuckin' way out there, and Kubrick was very precise. Lynch is a hell of an artist too. Have you ever seen his art? Fuckin' brilliant! I love it! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Would he be able to capture who you are? You said your record captures who you are. Who are you? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | I'm Chüd (laughs). It has to encapsulate me. The "who" idea of the record was self-reflection, self-understanding, analyzing what I am as a human being. I certainly don't give it sole inspiration, but I have a lot of ideas – like letting go of ego. Don't worry about your neighbor; just be yourself. If things are really going to change in the world, you have to start with yourself and you have to ask people and give them the tools to ask themselves and see something. I don't have the answer for the world; I only have answers for me. I know what's right and wrong and I know that crashing planes into buildings and killing innocent people and going to war and using this terrorism shit as a front for oil and finance and real estate is fuckin' wrong, and I don't back it up. I'm not behind this shit. I think [President Bush] is a fuckin' idiot. The thing is that two-thirds of Americans are behind this stupid shit. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
You were in New York City at the MTV Awards just a few days before 9/11. Was it weird for you? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | Yeah, we flew out of New York two days before on American Airlines, first-class to Texas. It's pretty weird. We could've been on those flights, literally. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
And you guys were, strangely enough, sporting bullet holes on your foreheads and blood-stained suits when you accepted the MTV2 award. Why that attire? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | I'd been wearing a bullet hole for so long. I'd probably been wearing one for five months on the stage. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
(Touching a crater located smack in the middle of his forehead) What kind of a scar is that? Don't tell me it's... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: |
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NYROCK: |
I remember everyone's slightly shocked face as you went up on stage, but when you started speaking, you sounded so incredibly normal! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | Yeah! (Laughs) That was pretty nuts. We got a lot of camera time. I'm like, "Dude, if we do this, the camera is going to be all over us and that's a good thing." | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Weird attracts attention. That's good promotion. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | Hell, yeah, it is! In hindsight, [Epic] was like, “Good work, way to go. That was a great idea, blah blah blah.” | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Now you're aliens. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | Yeah, it's kind of what it is. The way that I look at it – actually, I love the word. I wanted to get a tattoo on my stomach – the idea behind it is to think about the word "alien." Like in America, illegal aliens. They're people, man. This is weird. Alien means not from here, like you do not belong. I feel like an alien, because I feel like there are very few spaces – headspaces – that I could be involved with and be taken seriously on a level. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Are you dressing up as aliens in your shows? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | No, we're barely wearing any makeup on this tour. Just a little bit of... I kind of darken my eyes and then sometimes put a little bit of white... That's all where we're at, just doing minimal shit. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
System of a Down have removed their makeup as well. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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CHÜD: | Yeah, they don't wear it at all. I don't blame them. April 2003
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