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 Unlike some musicians who come and go as fashion and styles change, Henry Rollins has been hammering away at music for most of his life. His new live double-disc collection is rock and roll from the gut, brutal, fiery, and without apologies. In NY Rock's latest encounter with Henry, the iron-man of rock and roll discusses his new offering, his recording techniques, and the state of music in general. Always ready with an opinion or observation, Rollins is also a man of integrity. What you see is what you get, as he barrels ahead with all the subtlety of a locomotive.... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Why a double-live album on the heels of your last release? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | The record company kept asking for it, and I kind of got swept up with their enthusiasm. Well, if you want one that badly, okay. I don't mind making one. It's just that I've heard a lot of live albums made by bands in the last few years, and they always sound really shitty. I find out later that they've gone and overdubbed everything, and it's not really live anymore. I didn't want to do that. I buy live albums by bands these days, and I'm always let down, and I think other people probably are as well. So I didn't want to contribute to that and I didn't want people in our audience thinking that we're just trying to screw them out of some money and gouge them. So I had to consider that, and then I consider the fact that this record company is really, really enthusiastic about this. And getting enthusiasm out of a record label these days is a rare and wonderful thing. They said, look, we really think you're a great live band, and we'd like to do, not a knockoff, we'd like to do a full double CD with some videos on it and make it really awesome. I said since I'm paying for it, I'll do it my way. And I did. We brought in a 24-track analog recording unit, instead of doing it digitally, and it sounds good. I like putting it out because people who dig us basically dig what we do live, because it's not like we're getting airplay, or video play. And that's where this band excels, is live. I see a lot of bands play and a lot of them, they can't play very well. We play very well, and so it's a good representation of it. And it's fun, to do interviews for a record like this, because if a critic guy, music journalist like yourself, doesn't like it, I just know that you know dick about music, and we know more about you than you know about me. Artistically, it's nothing new. It's old music being played live, so I don't give it much weight, in that it's not a creative process. We just go out and play every night, and that's just a snapshot of one of the nights on tour. Creatively, I'm looking forward to the next album, the next proper album, in that it'll be new material. I hope people don't perceive it the wrong way, as in old Hank is going for your pocketbooks. I'm really not, and that's why we tried to make it really bitchin', like put a bunch of music on it, photos, videos, and keep the price down. I cut the royalty rate, very drastically, against management's wishes. I said I don't want their money. I want a double CD to come out at a really cool price. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Tell me about the project you're working on now. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | We just finished an album yesterday, actually. But it's not a Rollins Band record. It's a benefit record for the West Memphis Three, the three young men who are in prison down in West Memphis, Arkansas. It's 24 Black Flag songs played by me and the guys, with a bunch of guest singers. So we're going into the back pages. And it's exceedingly good. It's going to rip people's heads off. That'll come out in November, and hopefully raise some money for these young guys, and raise some awareness about the case. It's taken me and my worthy constituents pretty much all summer doing this. We'll get together probably later this year and start writing new stuff. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
How much fun is it playing with those Mother Superior guys [now the Rollins Band]? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | Oh, it's 100% fun. They got a shitload of energy, and they're red-hot players. So we get up there and tear it up. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
You know, I was listening to the live one yesterday, and in some sections, it's kind of Stooges, and there's a little Motorhead. I don't want to say like old-school rock and roll... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | It is. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Why do you think you don't get airplay? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: |
I'm just grateful I still get to play after 22 years. 'Cause it's not really the story with Hootie and the Blowfish. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Did you go with the analog for the sound preference? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | Absolutely, yeah. Digital is weak. Digital has no warmth, no balls, no real midrange, no authentic low end. It doesn't EQ very well. It doesn't master very well to me. And it sounds cold. I like to stay away from digital as much as possible. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Now as far as the internet, where do you stand on downloading free music and all? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | Oh, I think there's always been agencies to screw musicians. Record companies, you know, they excel at it. And I always thought Napster was just another way for the artist not to get paid. And I said, oh yeah, here's the new boss, same as the old boss. To me, I'm just the guy out in the fields and there's a new guy caning me. It is what it is. It is thievery. Me? I don't give a fuck. It's the only way sometimes people check out what I do at all. So I don't mind. But let's not call it something other than what it is. You're getting copyrighted music for free. Let's even throw out the word copyright: You're getting free shit that you should be paying for, that an artist sweated his ass off to make. And I don't care if it's Bon Jovi or Limp Bizkit. Everyone works hard making a record. And you get it for free? Well, good for you. I don't think it's all that cool. Am I going to try and stop you? Hell no. Do I get mad over it? Absolutely not. What I thought was kind of lame was Lars Metallica, going to court, going like, goddamnit, they took my 29 cents. It's like, motherfucker, you own 10% of the world's money anyway. You got 12 million in the bank. Well, maybe, what, 50 million? Shut up. Some kid likes your shit and he downloads it? Fuck you if you're mad. When you got like 6 million in the bank, mellow out, start giving your shit away. So when some kid comes up and says "Yeah, I like your new talking record. I downloaded it the other day." I kind of go, ah, well, thanks. I'm glad he likes it. He downloaded it. Well, ain't that a stitch. I just laugh. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
And on that same topic, where do you think record companies are heading, along the same lines, with the internet and everything? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | Well, I think they're going to try and control and police it, and do what they normally do -- drain every available ounce of cash out of it. I love when major labels get all pissed off that someone's taken their shit. They are stealing from the artists anyway. It's like, you're taking our stolen booty. It's hard for me to feel sorry for millionaires; it really is. I think it's a great time for music right now. I love seeing all these major labels fretting about the state of the music industry. They are arrogant enough to think that the music industry is just them. The music industry is fine. Their aspect of it isn't doing so well because they operate on such a sick, moneyed fiscal quarter basis. I mean there's a shitload of good bands out there that are playing from their guts. And so, music is fine. Music will always be fine. If Sony is having a rough year, it's really hard for me to feel bad. I feel bad for the musicians caught up in that. I don't feel bad for Sony, and I don't feel bad for music. Music is a beautiful survival species, 'cause it's ultimately fueled by human emotion and inspiration. And there's always going to be someone walking out onto a stage thinking it's his last night on earth to really give it all he's got. Thankfully, there will always be that. Bands like Spartacus and Mars Volta are two bands I definitely want to keep my eyes on. Bands like System of a Down, who are extremely different and having success, I think are really encouraging. And me, I have nothing to do with this world. I mean, I'm not on the radio. I don't exist. I'm just making my little records off in a very dark small corner, and I go play in very dark small venues. I'm so small whatever wave of popular music passes, it always passes well over my head, to where I'm almost unaware of it. I operate in my tiny little ecosystem. It has been interesting to go on eBay. It's funny, when I type in my own name, and I see things of me for sale, they never sell for much, and no one's bidding on them. Which is kind of like, it really lets you know where you're at. That there's your thermometer. It lets you know that you're obscure and no one gives a fuck. But the thing that's been interesting is seeing promo copies of my live record are now for sale, being sold by guys like you. And I went, awww, just bless 'em, look at 'em, they're making $3.50, 'cause that's all you're going to get for that thing. Like, wow, they got a free record and a jiffy pack and they just turn it right around and go on eBay. Ow. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Nah, I'm keeping mine. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | Aw, thanks, I appreciate it. But that's the way it is. I mean, that's the way of the world. You just got to rock with it. I'm quite happy with how things are in a lot of ways, quite disgusted in others. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
I was going to ask you about sampled music. Like sampled music in a song... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | I think if you give the guy his publishing. I mean, if you're going to rip off an entire bass line of a song and make a song out of it, I think you should acknowledge the dude who came up with the bass line, either financially or in credits or whatever. Or maybe you should write your own. That might be a good idea. Write your own shit. Like Lieber and Stoller, and Doc Pommus, and Carole King used to do. You know, like do the hard work instead of being crafty with other people's shit. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Would you ever want to sing standards or do a children's album? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | I like to talk to children -- not the Catholic priest kind of way. I do like interfacing with young people, and I'm starting to learn more about little kids because everyone around me is breeding. So in the last few years I've learned how to hold babies with confidence that I won't drop them and break them. I don't think I could do a children's record, because I'm so thoroughly and sickly adult at this point. You hit 40 and you're just old and everybody's a pain in your ass. So I think I'm really adult now. I don't think I could find that inner child. I think my inner child is wearing Depends it's so old, so no kids records. But, um, standards, I don't have a good enough voice. I tell you what though, if I could really sing, yeah, I would be doing Lieber and Stoller, Doc Pommus, "This Magic Moment," "Save the Last Dance for Me." I would be Ben E. King. I would just sing all the songs he used to sing, all the Drifters stuff. I admire people who can really sing. I don't. I can't. I communicate. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
You were on Howard Stern a while back. It was a great appearance. What was your take on it? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | I actually ended up liking the guy. I didn't know what to expect. I don't really listen to him. But I thought he was an okay dude. I thought he was a very shy guy, 'cause when you make eye contact with him, he always looks away. So I would just kind of burn holes through those purple glasses and stare at him when he asked a question, and he would never meet my gaze. I just think he's kind of used to that darkened room and dealing with people either one at a time from across the table or from a long-distance phone. I liked him because he didn't try and, you know, abuse-the-guest kind of thing. He was cool to me and I got that and I was cool back. We got along very well, where I did not think we were going to get along. I was ready to leap over the table and grab him if he was going to hassle me. At that hour of the morning, you know how it is; you're really not up for any static. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
And concerning the recent terrorism, you travel quite a bit. Has it affected your outlook on travel? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | Not at all. I do what I do. And as unfortunate as the events were, I can't make that alter my travel. Yeah, I leave a little earlier for the airport, but no, it didn't make me stop going anywhere I was going to go. Nah, I've already been in about 22 countries this year. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
And for the spoken-word side of Henry Rollins, how do you work on your material? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | By going out into the world and just making some notes on something that was interesting or funny or really sad or really horrible, and I kind of take the idea on stage and jam on it. Like Coltrane doing a 50-minute version of "Few of My Favorite Things" on the Live in Tokyo record. You just kind of take a theme and go and trust the night and trust yourself and trust the audience. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Is a lot of the stuff off the top of your head, or do you practice at home or...? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | No, no, I practice on stage in front of people. I just reckon if you're going to tell the truth, and you mean it, and you want to be there, somehow you're going to be okay. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Yeah, because I saw you at RIT in Rochester and I was really impressed by your storytelling. I mean, the way you put a story together. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | When was that? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
It was, let's see.... It was the day after my second son was born, that was November 3rd of last year. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | Well, having kids, I'm sure it's a stressful red-eyed year.... Well, I've been doing those shows for about 20 years now. You know, I was only in Black Flag about two years when I started doing talking shows. So I've been doing that thing almost as long as I've been doing music. It's been this weird parallel thing which has a strange life of its own, 'cause I greatly outdraw the band when I'm by myself. The last [speaking] tour, which was last year, was 53,000 tickets sold. And I'm just some guy. There's no opening act. I'm just out there winging it. I guess I'm good at it. I'd be the last person to say it. I know I enjoy it and I mean well, but the people really seem to like it, and I just hope it doesn't stop. But I never quite understand why it works. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Here's one for ya: Do you think there is intelligent life on earth? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | Yeah, sure, everywhere. You know, there are great people to talk to and meet, and great writers, and all kinds of articulate thinking people wherever you go. You just have to go to the right places. I meet people of all ages with really interesting things to say, where if you can keep your mouth shut long enough you can learn something. So, yeah, of course. I think America is currently in kind of a cultural vacuum, if you look at the popularity of Britney Spears. That's too bad that we think that's good stuff. Too bad people don't look at that and go, are you kidding me? Just cause you're pretty? Ella Fitzgerald had talent. That's why everyone liked Ella Fitzgerald. She's a pretty lady anyway, but it's the music that made her pretty. I miss bad-skinned chicks with a lot of soul, like Janis Joplin. So I think right now we're kind of in a cultural nowhere land. You know, when Julia Roberts gets 20 million a film, and when someone cares about acting by Julia Roberts, when people go to see that. Okay, well, that's not the kind of movie I'd ever go to see. I mean, maybe I'm a snob, or maybe I just think Herzog and Kurosawa and Hitchcock and Wenders and Fassbinder are geniuses, maybe that's just me. But you know, I saw the "Titanic" movie, and I couldn't believe how bad it was, and I went, wow, 17 billion dollars or, you know, whatever the fuck the guy made off it. That is the worst movie I have ever seen. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Any writings coming out this year? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | Yeah, I have a lyric book coming out in September, called "Unwelcomed Songs," and it's lyrics and photos from '80 to '92. It's pretty cool. I don't know if you ever saw a book of mine called "Get in the Van," but it's the same size, big coffee-table book -- photos of making of the records, live shots, all the lyrics, lyrics that didn't get used, footnotes, why the song was written, verses that weren't used. Basically took about ten years to put that book together and I finally got the thing all whacked together in the last few months. It's at the printing press right now, actually. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Well, I guess that's our half hour, anything else you'd like to say? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | Uh, no, you've very graciously let me expound on all the stuff I wanted to fire on, and I thank you for it. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
You're the man. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | Well, good luck with those kids. My manager he's got a 4 year old, no, a 5 year old and a 7 year old. So I watched them go from drooling little blobs to these very precocious little people. Their favorite game with me now is punch Henry in the balls, when they can, and so I feel sorry for, well, I sympathize with any parent. I watched my manager's eyes be red for like 18 months, and I go, "Why are your eyes always red? He goes, "I've seen the sun come up for the last 14 months." So you're a new dad, I sympathize. I know it must be everything you've got. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NYROCK: |
Yeah, if you want to keep traveling, don't have kids. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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HENRY: | Well, yeah, that's why I stay brutally single, because I really need to get up and go when I need to. If I ever had kids, I'd stop traveling, because I'd want to be like super dad. I wouldn't want them to go, "Mom, who is this gray-haired asshole who keeps tripping through our place with a metal suitcase?" July 2002 More Henry Rollins:
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